New setups? (15 people games) [Archive] (2023)

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Hero

July 18th, 2011, 05:05 AM

I'm really happy for the player amount extension by DR, I hope he can continue it in the future - I'm talking about +1-2 spots only:P

BUT, with this extension comes new setups, and I don't know how it will change these setups exactly. So far, most of the setups were made around magic numbers: 3 mafia, 7-8 town, 2-3 neutrals, 0-2 any, although I really hate any, but seen some player use them.

So what do you think, how will the future setups look like? More town with less power? 4 mafia with more powerful town? More neutrals? Will we see options that were rarily used, being checked, or options that were common, being left unchecked for balance purposes?

I really like the idea of having 4 mafs (of course, with restrictions), but I don't know if it would be viable.

philie

July 18th, 2011, 05:54 AM

I find that veteran works better in bigger games now, with such high chance of friendly fire, its not like town gets a big advantage.

monster

July 18th, 2011, 06:41 AM

With 14 ppl the standard ratio was 8:3:3 - town:mafia:neutrals.
With 15 ppl I see this changing to 8:3:4 and 9:4:2.

Deolrin

July 18th, 2011, 07:22 AM

I'm reserving the 15th slot in my setup for a Cultist\Cult Leader, as soon as it gets added. Meanwhile I'll just make it a random neutral. I don't think that it's in Europe yet though.

Hero

July 18th, 2011, 08:03 AM

I'm reserving the 15th slot in my setup for a Cultist\Cult Leader, as soon as it gets added. Meanwhile I'll just make it a random neutral. I don't think that it's in Europe yet though.

It's not yet, but what's your setup now that u can afford another neutral without hurting balance? Mine is 8-3-3, and neutrals are usually bad for town, so a 8-3-4 might mess up things. Also, imagine the chaos that a jester/executioner-fest would bring. Not like I have a better idea for the 15th slot...=(

Deolrin

July 18th, 2011, 08:12 AM

My setup:
Godfather
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Sheriff
Investigator
Detective
Doctor
Vigilante (3 shots)
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Arsonist
Random Neutral
Random Neutral

monster

July 20th, 2011, 02:25 AM

So guys, how the f*** do you setup a balanced game with 15 people. Now that I have played a few 15-player games here is how I feel:

If you make 9 town - town is OP(especially with no citizens), if you make 4 mafia - mafia is OP, if you add a 4th neutral - game becomes too random as the winner is who the neutrals choose to side with.

Any thoughts?

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So guys, how the f*** do you setup a balanced game with 15 people. Now that I have played a few 15-player games here is how I feel:

If you make 9 town - town is OP(especially with no citizens), if you make 4 mafia - mafia is OP, if you add a 4th neutral - game becomes too random as the winner is who the neutrals choose to side with.

Any thoughts?

I feel the same way. I'm waiting till Amnesiac comes out, its the perfect role for the 15th slot. Until then, I have reduced the amount of defined town so it is easier for evil roles to lie, but I made the 15th role a town member.

Town op :/

9-3-3

Hero

July 20th, 2011, 03:38 AM

Yes, Amnesiac can be the jolly joker here, but until then, I'll experiment with the 4 mafia setup. So far it had a disastrous (4maf alive and win), a not so one-sided as it seems (3maf alive, but hayor had the chance to turn the tide), and a quite entertaining game (town won thanks to arso and vetern[!!]).

So my setup looks like this now:

Mayor - 3 vote, not healable. I'm thinking about making him healable, but I have to see more games yet.
Investigator - doesn't see exact role.
Detective
Doctor - knows if target was attacked
Vigilante - 3 shots
Basic Town - citizen excluded, escort can't be roleblocked, sheriff sees everyone.
Advanced Town - Spy sees everything, Jailor has 2 execs, Coroner's options are checked, Veteran has infinite alerts (either that or I exclude Veteran. A limited veteran is just something to laugh at)
Random Town - citizen excluded
Random Town
Godfather - night immun and can kill alone but detectable and blockable.
Basic Mafia - consort can't be blocked, blackmailer target can't speat at trial ( i might have to change this), consort becomes godfather (okay, i definetly have to change that)
Adv Mafia - disguiser cleans role, janitor limited to two cleanings, framer is detectable.
Random Mafia - can't be killing role
Basic Neutral- sk immun and not blockable, but i'm going to get rid of the immunity, survivor has 3 vests and jester kills a guilty voter.
Adv Neutral - witch's target knows if being manipulated, executioner's target can only be town, but i might have to change that, and arsonist is not immun and target doesn't know if doused, but kills through immun and healing.

To be honest, my 3 games with this setup were all very different, and the very first game (where mafia made a flawless victory) I had a Coroner instead of the Vigilante, because I thought town might be op, haha. The biggest threat for town is getting 3 masons, because if they won't tell the town at the very beginning who are they, town has a big disadvantage. If it becomes a problem I might exclude support roles from basic town, so there could be only 2 masons.

The biggest threat of a game with 4 mafias is that mafia has 4 votes. That's why town got the Mayor and the Vigilante, who can save the day, even if town played very poorly. And I was convinced it's not a dead setup, because there was a game where Vigilante died at first day and there were 2 masons, who only revealed themselves when they were trialed at the very end... still, in a shitty game like this, Mayor had the chance to lynch a mafia, thus gaining momentum. The mafia said he's vigilante and has 2 shots, which was a lie, because vigils has 3 shots, so if anyone would care to open the help, town could've win. Town didn't have the brightest minds, on the other hand, mafia played very good (one of them said he's a sheriff, and lynched one of their own, thus gaining trust), but still, it could've been very different.

Also, neutrals can be cannon fodders for town, or mafiakillers. Maybe I should replace adv. neutral with arsonist, and basic neutral with random neutral (killing roles enabled), because 4 mafia + 33% witch is quite deadly, and executor... well... executor.

Hero

July 20th, 2011, 05:24 AM

Changes so far: Mayor is healable, blackmailed target can speak on trial, consi becomes mafioso not godfather, basic neutral replaced with random neutral (can be anything) and adv neutral replaced with arsonist.

I can't let that an exe+jester combo happen again, because it completely messes up stupid town, and to be honest, smart jesters/exes can give headache to experienced players as well.

Sirrush

July 20th, 2011, 12:03 PM

Mason Leader
Citizen
Investigator
Doctor
Adv. Town
Adv. Town
Basic Town
Basic Town
Random Town(Support Excluded)
Godfather
Adv. Mafia
Random Mafia
Random Neut.(Killing roles only)
Random Any(Neutral only, No killing)
Random Any ^

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It's interesting to say the least. As for why a guaranteed ML? Because he is the only role that is impossible to random.

Chaoseffigy

July 20th, 2011, 12:14 PM

I do 10/3/2

GodFather (killable, undetectable)
Adv Mafia
Random Mafia
Veteran (3 nights)
Jailor (Day start 2 kills, going to change to 1)
Lookout
Detective
Adv Town
Adv Town
Basic town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Serial Killer (Not immune, Blocks roleblockers)
Arsonist (Not immune, goes through healing and immunities, target knows hes doused for teh detectives/lookouts)

Envy

July 20th, 2011, 01:15 PM

I do 10/3/2

GodFather (killable, undetectable)
Adv Mafia
Random Mafia
Veteran (3 nights)
Jailor (Day start 2 kills, going to change to 1)
Lookout
Detective
Adv Town
Adv Town
Basic town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Serial Killer (Not immune, Blocks roleblockers)
Arsonist (Not immune, goes through healing and immunities, target knows hes doused for teh detectives/lookouts)

Now that is just mean to the Arsonist. Arsonist will win about 1% of your games... probably not even that. He can easily be killed at night and everyone knows they are doused. I think you should get rid of the target knows he is doused part.

Chaoseffigy

July 20th, 2011, 02:22 PM

I do 10/3/2

GodFather (killable, undetectable)
Adv Mafia
Random Mafia
Veteran (3 nights)
Jailor (Day start 2 kills, going to change to 1)
Lookout
Detective
Adv Town
Adv Town
Basic town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Serial Killer (Not immune, Blocks roleblockers)
Arsonist (Not immune, goes through healing and immunities, target knows hes doused for teh detectives/lookouts)

Now that is just mean to the Arsonist. Arsonist will win about 1% of your games... probably not even that. He can easily be killed at night and everyone knows they are doused. I think you should get rid of the target knows he is doused part.

I think I'll give the poor guy immunity.

Chaoseffigy

July 20th, 2011, 02:22 PM

Four mafia has and always will be OP. Put in another neutral.

Revedit: removed the rage

How about 10 town 4 mafia and 1 immune arsonist?

someguy

July 20th, 2011, 03:35 PM

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Four mafia has and always will be OP. Put in another neutral.

Revedit: removed the rage

It isn't so OP when the four mafia draw their roles from a hat and it is 1 janitor and 3 mafioso. There can be and are a few good 4 mafia set ups but if you just leave it to random chance you are not as likely to get one of those and get one of the OP or UP set ups. As such, I basically agree that you shouldn't leave a 4 mafia game up to random roles but I don't agree with the idea that there is no way to balance a 4 mafia game.

KnowingCrow

July 20th, 2011, 04:15 PM

So guys, how the f*** do you setup a balanced game with 15 people. Now that I have played a few 15-player games here is how I feel:

If you make 9 town - town is OP(especially with no citizens), if you make 4 mafia - mafia is OP, if you add a 4th neutral - game becomes too random as the winner is who the neutrals choose to side with.

Any thoughts?

I feel the same way. I'm waiting till Amnesiac comes out, its the perfect role for the 15th slot. Until then, I have reduced the amount of defined town so it is easier for evil roles to lie, but I made the 15th role a town member.

Town op :/

9-3-3

Will you update your thread regarding your choice? I personally use it myself and have had quite a few fun games with it. ;D

Hero

July 20th, 2011, 04:26 PM

Actually, since my recent changes, my 4 mafias game are very playable. Yeah, when a vigilante shoots the REVEALED mayor, it sucks for town, but you can't balance something around this.

There were dominant town victories, close mafia wins, and a game where the last 3 peeps were a mafia a townie and an sk, so yes, 4 mafias games can be balanced, it's just needs testing. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it only needs some more tweaks.

For now, I don't intend to do anything, because it's quite solid, but if balance demands a change, town can be still strenghtened, mafia can be still weakened, or the other way around. The only role that really suffers is the sk, who has a 1/6 chance to appear and not night immun, but if that's what it costs to make a 4 maf game playable, then let it be. /who knows, it might wouldn't hurt the balance much, but for now, I'm not willing to risk it/

You should never say things like that "it won't work" or "it will never be balanced". Try it and you will see it actually works.

Fun story: Guy told me my setup - the old one, 8-3-3 - sucked because of no set sk and it's not balanced. Played on his setup. 2 random neutrals became sks along with the set sk. There were 3 night immun, unblockable sks. I was one of them. Feel the irony.

Goonswarm

July 20th, 2011, 05:25 PM

8-3-4 makes for the best games imo.

Neutrals add a twist to the game and are ALWAYS fun as they have so many variables and can make decisions that can not be predicted. Survivors can help town by denying a death or hurt them by helping mafia. Jesters are always fun.

4 mafia is FUCKING HARDMODE for town, you already have to deal with 2-3 neutrals that can ally with mafia. So more or less with 4 mafia and one witch you can push majority vote ON FUCKING DAY 4,
1 death N1 1 Lynch D2: Total Players 12.
1 death N2 1 Lynch D3: Total Players 10.
WITH ONE NEUTRAL THAT SIDES WITH MAFIA or DOES NOT VOTE mafia has majority on day fucking 4.

I am not saying this will happen all the time but the ability to bandwagon a vote to majority in a matter of 5 days 100% with 4 mafia is fucking absurd. Make another neutral, you people who host 4 mafia have no fucking clue about balance. A mafia win is truly difficult and is rewarded by manipulation, strategy and overall skill at lying.

The ONLY way to balance it out imo is to place a immune at night killing neutral that can not be detected by sheriff. Finally if you INSIST on making a 4 mafia game, drop a 4 vote mayor that can be healed into the fray. It is the only way to balance out the issue of pushing majority too fast.

(4 mafia is OP and makes for an game lacking in enjoyment for all non mafia members.)

Dazrix

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July 20th, 2011, 05:53 PM

Think I'm going to experiment with this... If people are willing to help me test out a 15 man game..

I feel that the reason it feels OP, is because we're all accustomed to a 14 man setup thats predefined around the rules of 8-3-3.. However, I think that to balance the game back out, it's viable to have setups such as 8-4-3, or 9-3-4, depending on how we tweak the other factions...

For example - to compensate for the mafia recieving an additional team mate - remove the gf? Perhaps make the Framer undetectable? This would allow a 9-3-3 setup to be viable, because a framer would come up as non/susp, like the gf... So realistically a sheriff can only find the neutrals and ONE mafia member.

If you tweak with the SK a little to give the neutrals a bit more power - so SK can both kill role blockers, and not die at night.. This'll compensate for town getting an additional 9th..

I feel we're looking at the settings in the wrong way when we look at rebalancing for a 15th...

Hero

July 20th, 2011, 06:05 PM

I could say the same "you have no clue about balance" talk to you as well. 4 neutrals is just craziness. 2 kills/night, arso danger, jesters, executioners and witches sabotaging town, and survivor siding with mafia most of the time (sure, sometimes they help town, but they are a constant liability).

Yes, you are right, if all the town players fall asleep, it can happen, but we should think about 15 alive people playing the game. If town finds out NOTHING in 4 days time, they deserve it.

First of all, in my 9-4-2, town has the advantage of reducing the randomness. They can only get 1 jester/exe and that means no witch, or they get a witch, who can still disturb them, but at least they will know about it. Town is overall free, and the only thing that can obstruct them is their own stupidity or the mafias clever play. Sure, you can say 4 mafia is better than 3, which is, but 9 town with 1 set arso and only one rand neutral is kinda powerful. Usually around 20-22. Mafia is around that as well, a bit less.

Mayor has 3 votes and healable, vigil has 3 shots, and basically the only thing town doesnt have is an invest who sees exact role. They are strong. You can capslock the word only, or make it bold whatever you want, it won't backup your statements. I couldn't care less about statistics calculated with town doing nothing, when I saw with my own eyes what this setup can produce. And luckily, I had the chance to play some games without trolls or leavers, because those are the most helpful if you want to find the leaks on the balance.

So no, it's NOT the only way to balance it out. 9-4-2 is mainly about Town vs Mafia while 8-3-4 is about town having a bunch of obstacles while they're trying to reach the mafia. Both puts town in a hard position, both can be viable and bot can be balanced. Saying no, or "you don't know nothing about balance" is just stupid and narrow-minded.

Hero

July 20th, 2011, 06:18 PM

Think I'm going to experiment with this... If people are willing to help me test out a 15 man game..

I feel that the reason it feels OP, is because we're all accustomed to a 14 man setup thats predefined around the rules of 8-3-3.. However, I think that to balance the game back out, it's viable to have setups such as 8-4-3, or 9-3-4, depending on how we tweak the other factions...

For example - to compensate for the mafia recieving an additional team mate - remove the gf? Perhaps make the Framer undetectable? This would allow a 9-3-3 setup to be viable, because a framer would come up as non/susp, like the gf... So realistically a sheriff can only find the neutrals and ONE mafia member.

If you tweak with the SK a little to give the neutrals a bit more power - so SK can both kill role blockers, and not die at night.. This'll compensate for town getting an additional 9th..

I feel we're looking at the settings in the wrong way when we look at rebalancing for a 15th...

Exactly! It's all about the settings. X-Y-Z doesn't mean you just add X, Y and Z amount of town/maf/neutral roles to the game and press start. It's about tweaking ALL the roles, so they balance each other out. I'm not saying it's easy to balance, but hell, we don't even play with 15 players for a week and we already have results with these "never be balanced" settings. There's nothing more beautiful, when you see your work's fruit, as roles counteract with each other just as you planned. You don't just randomly tick some options, or randomly put in some roles, no. You have something in mind, which you want to see when you set things in motion. If you see what you wanted to see, then it's great, you know you are one step closer to balance. If something horrible happens, you can think where did you go wrong, and start planning again. My initial setup with unhealable mayor, set coroner, buffed blackmailer, buffed consig and no set vigilante was a disaster, but I'm glad I didn't give up just because the first setup I could think of wasn't perfect (at all).

You just need to try and experiment. And of course, share, so that people doesn't have to start from scratch.

FalseTruth

July 20th, 2011, 06:49 PM

So guys, how the f*** do you setup a balanced game with 15 people. Now that I have played a few 15-player games here is how I feel:

If you make 9 town - town is OP(especially with no citizens), if you make 4 mafia - mafia is OP, if you add a 4th neutral - game becomes too random as the winner is who the neutrals choose to side with.

Any thoughts?

I feel the same way. I'm waiting till Amnesiac comes out, its the perfect role for the 15th slot. Until then, I have reduced the amount of defined town so it is easier for evil roles to lie, but I made the 15th role a town member.

Town op :/

9-3-3

Will you update your thread regarding your choice? I personally use it myself and have had quite a few fun games with it. ;D

I will as soon as Amnesiac comes out. ATM my setup is unrefined, so I don't want to post it.

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What is the Wordle word today 20th March? ›

The Wordle for March 20 is RENEW.

What is today's Wordle June 25? ›

Answer for Wordle 371 for June 25, 2022

The answer to Wordle puzzle 371 is BEADY. Congrats on solving the Wordle puzzle today. If anyone wants more answers for the next Wordle puzzles, make sure to keep checking back here at Game Rant. Wordle is available for any browser.

Are there different versions of Heardle? ›

There's a nostalgic new clone for you. Heardle Decades takes the song-guessing Wordle variant to make individual music guessing games based on songs from the '60s, '70s, '80s, and '90s. It's not an official Heardle offshoot, so has nothing to do with Heardle's new owner, Spotify, but it plugs into the streaming site.

What is the answer to Wordle june4? ›

Below is the Wordle word of the day for Saturday 4th June. Today's Wordle answer is: FROTH.

What's happened to Heardle? ›

Spotify Decides to Buy Heardle

So popular that Spotify became interested in it. In July 2022, Spotify acquired Heardle and made a few changes, making it easier for users to search for the song of the day on the Spotify web app.

How do you play past Heardles? ›

Go to the Heardle game page at heardle. app. That's it, you can play any older Heardle game just like that. To play another game, right-click the Date and Time displayed at the bottom right corner of the screen, on the taskbar.

Can I play Heardle more than once a day? ›

As it is a daily challenge, you can play it only once a day. The game resets for everyone at 12 AM local time whereupon a new universal Twice Heardle challenge immediately gets unveiled for the players.

Is there an app for Heardle? ›

To play Heardle, all you have to do is visit the Heardle website: www. heardle. app. The app then tells you to follow three easy instructions.

Is there a rock version of Heardle? ›

Come to the 80s Rock Heardle game, you will be able to play and listen to famous songs of famous rock bands in the 80s. Every day Rock Heardle of the 80s plays a clip of a famous song.

What is Wordle april17? ›

Answer for Wordle 302 for April 17, 2022

The answer to Wordle puzzle 302 is AMPLE.

What was Wordle 285 answer? ›

Now, if you haven't guessed it till now, the answer to Wordle 285 is LOWLY.

What happened to Semantle? ›

Yes, Semantle is moving to https://semantle.com. If you go to the old site, you should get redirected to the new site. This will only happen the first time you visit on a given UTC day (so we don't have to worry about transferring a day's guesses over).

Is Canuckle ended? ›

At the end of our time talking with Mark, we wanted to hear what he had to say about the game's future. Canuckle is set to end on Canada Day (July 1, 2022).

Is Heardle harder since Spotify? ›

So minor in the grand scheme of things, but #Heardle has gone from a fun start to the day to a frustrating one since @Spotify took over. Just too hard now. It's had a negative impact on my day and on my perception of them as a company as a result.

Is there a game called Heardle? ›

Heardle is one of many beloved spinoffs that have cropped up in the vein of Wordle, the daily word game that became so popular that it was acquired by The New York Times. In the game, you're served the first second of a popular song. If you can guess which song it is within one second, then congrats, you win!

Where is Heardle available? ›

Heardle is available to users in the U.S., U.K., Ireland, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

Is there a Heardle game? ›

Heardle is a relatively new music game you can play via a website app where you listen to the introduction of a song, with the goal of the game to guess the artist and title in as few turns as possible. The song tracks are from a pool of most-streamed songs in the last 10 years.

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